Re: Please help with double checking this issue ... 10-8-05

NMSdoc: Suezoled, when you ask generalized/simple questions, you’ll get a generalized /simple answer.

Please doctor, if you want a more in-depth answer, feel free to present your patients case (in it’s entirety and in a standard format), so that the members of this forum can comment on it.

Geesh -- I thought suezoled's questions were clear enough, including the issues and concerns he/she raised related to a chiropractor ordering an MRI for a patient complaining of abdominal pain and/or constipation. And, in case you hadn't noticed, YOU thought these questions were clear enough to offer an answer without so much as a single question pertaining to the specific case.

You wrote [quoting]: "[Y]es, an MRI can be warranted for a patient with abdominal pain. Patients with constipation is also a pretty simple condition that many DC's can handle (at least in WA state)."

So, brushing-off suezoled's questions now with a version of "Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer" only makes me think that suezoled got a stupid answer to some completely reasonable questions.

Suezoled doesn't NEED to present an entire case in ANY format for you do grasp the issues and answer questions about what seemed to alarm him/her the most -- the belligerent chiropractor insisting he/she had every RIGHT (being a "full doctor," that is) to order an MRI to diagnose a patient's "constipation." Xena and I explained a little about the belligerence; it's on you to explain the MRI order made by a CHIROpractor to diagnose abdominal pain and/or the cause of a patient's constipation.

NMSdoc: TEO, as usual, there is probably more to this case than the limited initial info given. You should ask the doctor for more info…

To begin with, I'm not sure suezoled is a chiropractor. That's not an issue for me, though. I'm bothered that you didn't answer a single one of _my_ (at least) SIX questions -- all of them directed to YOU, NMSdoc. I've got nothing to ask suezoled, but I'd appreciate you taking time to answer my questions, if you're able, that is. Here they are again -- all of them referencing your reply to suezoled: "[Y]es, an MRI can be warranted for a patient with abdominal pain. Patients with constipation is also a pretty simple condition that many DC's can handle (at least in WA state)."

My questions (again):

1. Do you mean by "handle" that chiropractors routinely AND successfully manage constipation?

2. Or, did you want to say that constipation and [perhaps many] other non-musculoskeletal complaints are within the legal scope of a chiropractors' practice to treat ... "(at least in WA state)"?

3. Either way, I'm curious to know what the specific chiropractic treatment of constipation is. It's a "pretty simple condition," you say, so I'm assuming by this, you mean similarly, that the treatments used by a chiropractor are likewise, "pretty simple." What are these treatments?

4. That said, and moving a little closer to suezoled's question and concern, would any of the constipation diagnoses that a chiropractor COULD "handle" warrant an MRI? If the differential requires an MRI and the chiropractor is (from patient history and exam) concerned enough about any of these diagnoses that they would even CONSIDER ordering one, wouldn't the entire issue be better "handled" by someone whose scope of practice, medical expertise, and experience would actually make them a more appropriate choice for diagnosing and managing any of these "less simple" causes of abdominal pain and constipation?

5. I mean, is there anything wrong with this picture, NMSdoc --a chiropractor ordering an MRI for a patient complaining of abdominal pain and constipation? For example, has the patient seen a doctor about this?

6. Incidentally, do chiropractors in Washington ordering MRIs prescribe anxiolytics for their patients who are nervous about the procedure? Or do these patients have to bother their doctor for a prescription, in effect, asking this physician to participate in the chiropractic charade?

NMSdoc: As you should know, all medications required when doing advance imaging procedures (MRI, bone scan, etc) are done by the MD. I am just given the faxed report (or the original films if I wish).

"As I should know ...?" "The MD," NMSdoc? What MD? I'm not asking about dyes injected for some MRIs. I asked about anxiolytics, which you apparently don't know are prescribed by the patient's primary care doctor or the doctor ordering the MRI -- a neurologist, let's say. The MRI facility doesn't ask the patient if they'd like an Ativan for the ride. The patient has to bother their doctor for a benzodiazepine -- because some chiropractor has some delusional urge to act-out the gastroenterologist in them.

I'm not seeing it :')

~TEO.